In a wide-ranging interview with Gulf News on the fringes of Gitex Technology Week in Dubai on October , Microsoft Gulf HR Director Anu Sabapathy discussed the qualities Microsoft is looking for in candidates, how it encourages learning and growth, the impact of technology on the workplace, the need for diversity, and the work-life balance in the modern world.
This is a full transcript of the interview, lightly edited for clarity.
Q: The talent shortage: A lot of people I talk to say they’re having difficulty recruiting the right kind of people - people who are flexible, adaptable, generalists rather than specialist. Is that something you recognise?
A: “You’ve hit all the right aspects. You’ve done your research. Everything we’re exposed to right now, whatever industry, whether its financial, public sector partners, small- and medium-sized firms, everyone has been exposed to digital transformation in some way, shape or form. I think, you’re absolutely right in that what we often overlook in this technological transformation is the people aspect and the culture aspect.
“You go right into capabilities, and this is something that we’re dealing with. What used to be relevant 20 years ago isn’t as much [now]. What we’ve adopted, and what’s working well for us, is this whole concept of shifting our culture. Everything that we do is anchored in this growth mindset, which is premised on the fact that potential is nurtured, not predetermined, that everyone can grow and develop, and that it begins with a learner mindset.
“So we’ve really invested a lot of our time and effort into making sure that we’re able to incrementally shift that culture - little by little, we’re right in the midst of that cultural journey, I would say - to help people to be more adaptable, to be able to work with confidence and resilience in an ambiguous environment, and that’s kind of what our foundational elements have been for us at our company.
“And I think this kind of translates well to the environment around us. The mindset is something that you can control. There’s so much technology that’s coming at us, and there’s only a limited human ability to be able to consume all of that. so it’s really about, ‘OK, how can I expose myself and embrace some of these challenges, how do I adapt my learning style and my adaptability to the world around me, how can I serve my customers differently, what capabilities do I need to build, refine, shape, etc, and then continue on my learning path that way?’
“That’s kind of where we’ve rooted our mindset as a company, and what I would say to anyone coming and asking me for advice is really, shift your thinking and look at technology not out of fear but as something you can embrace and optimise to change your skillsets and capabilities as well.”
What techniques does Microsoft use to help people become more adaptable?
“We have a number of different things. To give you a few examples, some is through behaviour. How we do that is we start at the top - our leaders, and our leadership principles. We started to bake our leadership principles - very simple concepts - in the growth mindset. We expect our leaders to kind of storytell and role model around what a growth mindset could look like: how do you take risks and fail, how do you learn from your mistakes. And so through storytelling and giving examples from the leadership right down, disseminating it right down through the organisation, having a consistent message, has really helped us in terms of the language and the communication that we’re using in shifting our culture.
“The other thing is processes. In the past our performance management system used to be very binary - you’ve exceeded, you’ve achieved, you’re this, etc. But now we have different ways of measuring progress and performance. We term it under something we call ‘impact’. At the end of the year, how someone is measured on their performance is based on their impact for the year, which is based on a trifecta of your individual priorities, how you’ve contributed to someone else’s success, and how you’ve leveraged learning from others around you.
“So that whole concept of a learner mentality - what did you do in your last period, what could you have done differently, so really causing someone to be self-critical, and how you’re going to develop going forward. So you’re having the same conversations and it’s reinforcing the systems that we’ve put into place. That’s another way we’re shifting our culture.
“And then the other way is, before the growth mindset used to be just words and phrases on a Powerpoint slide. Now we also do things like hackerthons, where we bring teams from all over the world, different disciplines, to think together, to think creatively. So that demonstrates new ways of working, new ways of collaborating.
“I’ll give you an example. Even for us in HR, we’re out with customers, with partners, way more than I was even as recently as 10 years ago, because for an account manager the customer conversation is a different conversation. He’s not always talking to the CIO, the CTO, he’s talking to the finance lead, to the HR lead, and so they’re partnering with us as well to go out to customers and partners. So it’s pretty exciting, that potential to learn and explore and be innovative, it’s a totally different landscape.
“And so when we go out to recruit, our demographic is changing. It’s not just the technical gurus, right? When we’re looking for people that are customer-obsessed, people that are able to demonstrate a learner mindset, people that are able to demonstrate a growth mindset and a willingness to take on challenges.
“So it opens up your doors, and it opens up our pool when we’re looking for talent as well.”
How does a potential recruit demonstrate these capabilities?
“There are some classic or traditional technical roles that need deep technical expertise, like quantum computing, for example. But we also realise we ourselves as a company are evolving, and we are learning. We haven’t got this figured out either. As part of that journey we’re also seeing that when we look for talent that has that ability, that aptitude, that piece where they’re able to show examples, through their previous experiences, when they’ve tried something innovative - maybe they’ve failed at it, but here’s what I’ve learnt, and here’s what I did with it. Someone who’s able to articulate that aspect of their experience has become a game-changer for us. It’s not a ‘nice to have’ or a ‘plus to have’. Sometimes that’s the must-have in particular roles. So it’s really changed the landscape, it’s changed our views on talent. I think we’ve opened doors to different types of talent, and so for us as a company we feel that’s helping us learn and grow and be more innovative. We’re focussed on customer obsession – if I say to you, Andrew, tell me how you influenced a customer differently, or in an innovative way, it doesn’t matter if you’re from a small company or a large company, if you articulate to me how you help the customer at the core of your engagement, and how you influenced the customer to do something differently because of your leadership in there then that’s an interesting conversation for us.”
Is there a shortage of talent or are people not looking for it in the right places?
“I think with the technology transformation, some industries are probably more affected than others, and I think that’s necessitated some of the stakeholders to go back to their roots and evaluate how relevant their business is in today’s market. So I think what you’re going to see is a shifting of investments in another area and maybe a scaling down in some other areas. I really think it’s about how different organisations are optimising the technology around them scale up their business to remain relevant. So I think you’ll see buckets shifting, and redeployment in one particular area and taking that and reinvesting in another area, so I think you’ll have ebbs and flows at different points in this transformation. I don’t think it’s a one-stop destination. I would say there’s probably an appetite at some point for different capabilities and at other times, just a shifting of capabilities.”
What would you advise a school leaver with ambitions to work for a tech giant to do? Should they be looking at programming and engineering or something different?
“It depends. There’s so many different fields in technology. There’s finance, there’s HR. You don’t have to be a technology expert to work for a technology company. You have to have a passion for technology and what it can do.
“If I think about our mission statement, empowering every person on the planet to achieve more, it’s really, ‘How do I use the technology around me to be able to optimise whatever I’m doing.’ If you think about your home life and your work life… I have three kids, and I see my kids optimising technology and using technology in ways I didn’t know how to use 10 years ago, 15 years ago. And how they’re using it for them to accelerate their educational path. They’re not in tech, but how they’re using the technology and how they’re using their mental capacity to navigate through what they need to do.
“That’s how I see it. Whether you’re in university, college, high school, whatever, it’s not about being a technology expert, but it’s about having a passion for technology and being able to see how it fits into the larger ecosystem.”
Tell me about Microsoft’s new leave policies. Are they being rolled out globally?
“Yes. As part of our diversity and inclusion strategy, when we were looking at ways of revamping our maternity, our parental leave and our compassionate care leave, we embarked upon that globally, and then we’ve adopted locally, is this maternity leave enhancement.
“For us here in the Gulf region, what it means is 20 weeks fully paid for a mother, and at the same time for parental leave of 6 weeks fully paid and 4 weeks for caregiver leave – if you have a dependent who’s an immediate family member, mother, father, sister, etc – giving time away to take care of a seriously ill person.”
Is parental or caregiver leave annual?
“For maternity it’s not time-bound. Whenever you have your baby, it’s 20 weeks. The compassionate leave is not a one-time. For example, if my mother was ill now, I’d take the four weeks. And then if my father gets ill six months down the line, you’d be eligible for that as well. But it differs based on country. In the Gulf region this is what we’re doing, but it depends on the country where you are, in terms of the exact number of weeks etc. It differs slightly depending on local law.”
And the purpose of this?
“It’s that balance between work and life integration. I mean, we’re very cognisant of the fact that we’re all humans at the end of the day and we all have personal lives that are a big part of our work life as well. It’s just being more inclusive of our employees, it’s taking care of our employees, it’s acknowledging our employees’ personal life as well.
“It just went live, September 15.”
What are your expectations – improvements in productivity? Or doesn’t that enter into it?
“For us, our motivation was to really build a more diverse and inclusive culture, and so we’ve been focussed on that and we feel like being able to offer this to our employees is going to give them a chance to be able to integrate better and have better impact with their work.”
There has to be a corporate benefit behind it. Is it staff retention, is it productivity improvements?
“It’s a combination of everything. For us, at the foundational level, it’s part of our culture. It’s a big piece of our culture, and we want to be able to continuously innovate and improve our culture and make it an exceptional place to work for employees. And I think that’s the motivation and the core of where it’s coming from. And I think on top of that, absolutely – it’s early for data, but I think if we look down the line at things like retention, employer of choice, attracting talent, I think there definitely there are pieces of that embedded in there as well.”
There’ve been a number of reports recently on issues with diversity in tech companies in the US. Microsoft isn’t one of the companies that’s had a reported problem, but the sector as a whole seems to have a problem. Is it something you’re addressing?
“I think for us in this region… We have 49 different nationalities, for example, in Microsoft Gulf. For us that focus on diversity and inclusion is always at the top of the mind. I think we’re always looking for talent to attract and retain and develop, and part of that is our gender diversity as well, for females, millennials. It’s such a broad term, I think we have a number of different things. For us, diversity means diversity in perspectives, diversity in nationalities, diversity in demographic, in age. There’s a whole smorgasbord of factors that come in. I think it’s a much broader discussion, and I think, for us here, we really embraced our diversity, to really help us with regards to how we engage with our customers and partners. That’s the angle that we’ve taken locally with regards to that.”
Automation – how is that likely to impact tech companies in the region, or Microsoft in particular?
“Everyone’s talking about this, you’re absolutely right, in terms of automation. But when we talk about artificial intelligence, about machine learning and all the different types of technology that come at you, it can be overwhelming. But I think what’s really important to remember, and the view that we have as Microsoft, is that humans and the artificial intelligence are really complementary to each other. It’s really about how you embrace and amplify the human experience using this technology. One of my colleagues has this great phrase, where he says, ‘Human ingenuity amplified by intelligent technology.’ And I’m like, ‘Well, what does that mean?’ But what it really is is, how do I amplify the human experience by using the technology around them. Humans have emotions, have a different range of capabilities, etc. What does artificial intelligence have? It has an unlimited scope for analysis, etc. The view that we always encourage for our employees, as well as what I would say, out, is how do you use this technology to be able to accelerate your impact in your role.
“So if I look at HR, for example, we’ve got an influx of big data and power VI that’s taking over how we do our roles as well, which is a big shift even from as recently as a few years ago.”
Privacy laws notwithstanding, you probably have access to more data on your employees than ever before.
“Exactly. So then you think about how do I consume it, how do I use that data to drive insights and then actions to accelerate our business partnership. The way we do HR today isn’t the same as we did HR three years ago. The capabilities and the new skills that technology also offers and provides, it provides for a really innovative learning experience. If you shift your mindset and take on this whole learner mentality and not have this fear when technology comes, that you’d rather embrace it, there are very unique ways you can do your role, whatever role it is, and amplify your impact. That’s how I would phrase it.
“If you see some of our philanthropic efforts with regard to Microsoft, we’re able to help visually impaired children, we’re in the hospitals etc, so that aspect of making a difference in the community and in the lives around us, that aspect of using technology, it lends to a whole different set of business outcomes that you never thought possible.
“Automation is not something to be feared, but something to be embraced, and something that really is going to be foundational for us in how we do business, how we live and how we work.”
And what about people left behind?
“You don’t need to be left behind. I think there is a feeling sometimes that people will feel, ‘OK, I don’t have access to this, or I don’t know how to do this.’ I think this goes back to… Look, it’s a journey, right. It’s one incremental step at a time. It’s like, how many people can I bring along on my journey with me. Maybe I’ll bring you and a couple of others. Maybe you in turn will bring a couple more. So it feels like a movement of sorts. That’s how I view it. I don’t think anyone needs to be left behind, but I think people will progress at different paces depending on where their mindset’s at.”
We used to try to convince our HR departments that we were perfect. This is no longer possible. Do HR departments these day accept that everyone is flawed?
“Absolutely. I think as we change and as we grow as well, and as our function also continues to evolve, I’ll go back to what I said at the beginning of the discussion which is the concept of the learner mindset and the growth mindset. We believe that every single individual can grow and develop. And I think the important thing for employees or people to think about is, ‘Are we growing and developing at a pace that the organisation requires.’ That’s the critical factor there.
“I think if you look at it that way, if you look at it as a continuum, I think all of us are at different places in the continuum. And so I think for HR there’s a critical role that we play in making sure that we enable and empower our leaders to be able to recognise that within their workforces and be able to help them navigate through those conversations to help them be able to attract, retain and develop world-class talent.”
So for someone looking at a career path in the modern world, keep learning.
“Keep learning, keep changing. Stay relevant. Those are definitely some of the tenets of the growth mindset. Don’t be afraid to fail – well, be afraid to fail but take the learnings from that so that the next time you increase your impact in a different way. Be boundary-less in how you think about a solution. Be innovative and be creative in your thinking. For us, with our leaders, that’s a lot of what we do in the HR team. We focus a lot on developing our leaders around the leadership principles. We have three major pillars, which is generating energy, creating clarity and delivering success. And you’d say, it sounds simple. That’s it. I mean, yes, you go a little bit deeper but those are the three pillars for our leaders, and we spend our time doing that so that they’re able to coach their employees in a relevant way so that they can continue to nurture their talent.
“That’s when the storytelling and the role modelling become important for our leaders – them showing their vulnerability to say, “Look, I’m a leader, we’re also figuring this out with you. So, it’s that shift to we versus I as well.
“To be really clear, we haven’t figured it all out. We’re in the midst of that journey. As long as we’re making one incremental step at a time, I think that’s progress. Making sure that we’re better each day than we were the day before.”
Where do you see the job market in the sector in five or 10 years? Or is that a prediction that can’t be made?
“I wish I had a silver bullet for you, and I don’t. But I do think that the set of capabilities and the set of skills that are being required from people in the workplace today is very different from what it was five and 10 years ago, and I think one of the things that I love about this learner mindset, this learner mentality, is that it transcends the kind of era that you’re in. Whether you’re in a fast-paced upturn or a downturn, if you keep this at the core there’s always something that you’re taking away, and there’s always and capability or muscle that you’re building, that’s making you better as a person, as an individual.”
Does going for broader knowledge mean we’re lacking in depth? Programmers are used to learning new languages every few years; in other fields we’re not quite so used to doing that.
“I think it depends on the role. I don’t think everything is broad. There are certain technical roles that will have deep technical expertise. But just like that example, you’re still learning new information. So if you go back to what we said earlier, you’re still learning, albeit in a technical capacity. I think that’s what’s really important to remember. It doesn’t matter if it’s a technical field, if it’s comms, if it’s HR, if it’s finance. It’s that ability for you, whatever field you’re in, you’re able to show that you’re getting deeper and more meaningful with the experiences that you’re building and the experiences you’re building.
“So it’s not necessarily going broad, it’s about building depth through different experiences. That’s how I would say it. A broader set of experiences to help your learning potential.”
